Canadian 404C restoration

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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 10 jul 2021, 07:30

After filling the engine with coolant several weeks ago, there was a leak from the joint of the head gasket. It was a new head so the shop that assembled it assumed it was flat and not needing a resurfacing. I took the head off and it was checked, and although it was flat, there was a small area about 0.38 mm lower than the surrounding area. This is around where the leak was. So the shop resurfaced it at no charge and I got it back today. 0.38 mm was removed, which is a little bit less than the 0.5 mm maximum for injection heads.

I will reassemble the engine with a Reinz gasket this time.

I got the head back Friday afternoon:
Afbeelding
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 18 jul 2021, 07:04

Well, the pause has been very good! 

I've had a chance to look more closely than I did before at the preparation of the internal engine parts.

Basically, I need to pull the block out of the car again, put it on the stand, and whip put the pistons and rods....because I did not change the connecting rod bolts.  I had read in a Peugeot service Bulletin many years ago that they were no longer recommending systematic replacement of rod bolts at engine reassembly because the rod bolts were knurled and mounting them in the rod would ever so slightly affect the position of the rod cap and therefore the bearing positioning, which is BAD.  That is correct, but the bulletin was from 1973....and my car is from 1966.

In 1966 (and probably up to 1970+) the 404 rods did NOT have knurling in them, but rather tight smooth sleeves to fit them in the rod holes.  So that Bulletin does not apply to an earlier 404.  Further, the workshop manual for the 404 KF2 states that the bolts and washers have to be changed systematically after every dismantling.  In other words, they are stretch bolts.

The good news is that I have a set of eight of them, new old stock, with new washers and nuts.  The bad news is it means a fair bit of new work.  But: better now than later!

In 1987 when I did a basic rebuild on another KF2 engine, I did not change the rod bolts IIRC but that was as I say a rather basic rebuild and even though it was driven hard for 100,000 more km and never seemed to have a problem, I'd rather do this engine 100% properly.

The eight top bolts in the photo are from a 404, NOS, and the bottom one is one of six (!) knurled ones I have from a later Peugeot engine, possibly a 504.Afbeelding
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor johnssons » 19 jul 2021, 13:03

... you are all ready know, there are two types of bolts, the 0607-10 (Ø9,25x56 mm) is the version up to 1980, the 0607-17 (Ø9,25x58 mm) is a stretch bolt mounted from 1980... the bolt with the ridges .. what I don't know is if the ridged bolt head fits into the piston rod.. If it fits, removing the crankcase pan is enough, etc. otherwise everything has to come loose and the piston rods have to be modified. An other thing is the length difference, the ridged bolt is longer ...

John
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 19 jul 2021, 17:22

My parts manual says the 0607.10 is to 1968 and the 0607-17 is 1968 onwards. The knurled ones were for (maybe??) the XC7 version, and other models. In both cases the KF2 factory service manual says that the bolts MUST be replaced at each reassembly.

That said, I did run a KF2 engine that had been reassembled with old connecting rod bolts for 100,000 km and they did not break or come loose; however I want to do this car right, following factory procedures.

I have an engine crane in the garage so removing it is not difficult.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor johnssons » 19 jul 2021, 20:43

..I understand your feeling and your thought ... in that way it's easy, take out the engine and change the piston rod bolts ... the only thing is that this Peugeot will be better than the best factory car ... there must be one ...

Very nice project with a lot of attention ... John
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 25 jul 2021, 21:35

I took the advantage of the current pause in work to clean the old door seals. The new replicas available these days are too thick and press too hard against the doors when shut and because the rubber of the originals seems to be in decent condition, I thought I'd spend a few hours cleaning one up to see if my plan to reuse them would pay off....

Before: Afbeelding

Before (inside the seal where the metal clips are placed): Afbeelding

After: Afbeelding

After (inside the seal where the metal clips are placed): Afbeelding

Thanks to Jérôme Roussel in France for giving me 1.5 metres of metal clip strips, to replace the 1.5 metres of my originals that rusted to FeO2 powder in the 5 years these seals from 1975 were on the car, and the car on the road. These will all be de-rusted and electroplated in Cadmium and painted, then reinserted into the seals.
Afbeelding

As I noted, the seals were bought by the previous owner in 1975 at Jay's British and European Motors - I still have the invoice - and they were on this daily driven car for five years. After that the car was in a garage and so the rubber is truly in excellent condition. Three hours or maybe a bit more with Flitz polish turned them from a rusted, dirty mess into what appears to be nearly new and very soft and supple rubber!

After a good wash with a nail brush, the cleaned seal was treated with this Würth stuff and wow did it make a huge difference!
Afbeelding

The door-mounted striker plates are not as good looking as they should be so they too will be replated when the seal clips are done.
Afbeelding

It seems that the spare connecting rod bolts I have are a bit too short so I'll be ordering a couple of sets from Europe shortly.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 04 okt 2021, 03:34

The replated door seal reinforcement clips and striker plates are back....
Afbeelding

...and the cleaned door seals reassembled with the plated track inside
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I also got a rebuilt Hydrovac to replace my old one....
Afbeelding

And finally, on October 3rd, the engine's out again, to replace the rod bolts and put the replaned head on again in comfort on the engine stand. That's my son in the photos wearing the Peugeot overalls.



Afbeelding


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Afbeelding
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 14 jul 2023, 20:38

Hello...if you're wondering what happened to this project, well it has been delayed for a little while for a number of reasons. Firstly, I was a little disappointed that the engine builder had made so many mistakes and that I had to take the engine out again. So I left it for some months after that happened. Then I had a problem with my gallbladder that was making me quite tired and that finally was removed 5 weeks ago!

Since October, here is what happened:
  • The crankshaft was checked by a different machine shop than did the original work and they were able to polish out the damage without resorting to a regrind to 0,5 mm. That was good news.
  • I will take the valve rocker shaft assemblies apart again to check the first engine shop's work. The shafts are new but the rocker arms are old, but had new bronze bushes installed by the machine shop. The thing I suspect is they did not have the little round recesses in the bushes to retain oil and if not, I'll have to get rid of them and buy Peugeot originals.
  • I bought some new old stock Peugeot 404C parts that can be used in the car.

In just over two months our youngest daughter will be married - originally we had hoped that the 404C could be the "wedding car" - and after that we will have a 6 week trip to Europe. So work on the 404C should resume in late November.

The parts I bought recently, for $60:
Afbeelding
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor RobinHoed » 14 jul 2023, 23:22

Thanks for the update Mike, hopefully you are in good health again!

If you are in the area of the Haque let me know, because you need the visit the Louwman museum then for sure (biggest private classic car collection in the world, approx 250)

Hopefully you will find more time for your project after your holiday.

Regards,
Robin
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 15 jul 2023, 00:05

Thanks Robin, I feel very much better since the surgery.

I am pretty certain that despite being over there for 6 weeks, we won't have time to visit NL, which is a shame because I lived there from 1969-1972 and love the country. Maybe next time. We will be in the UK visiting relatives, then Ireland, then France, Munich, Switzerland, Spain, Morocco and Portugal and finally back to France.

One day I want to tour the civil defence systems in NL for the big dykes and groundwater pumps that keep the North Sea out.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 03 jul 2024, 07:04

After a long wait for some main bearing shells in 0.3 mm oversize, I was able to begin engine reassembly yesterday.
AfbeeldingAfbeeldingAfbeeldingAfbeeldingAfbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding Afbeelding

The next step is to assemble the timing gears, lubricate the camshaft and tappets with zinc-rich grease and then complete assembly.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 08 jul 2024, 06:57

Sunday I pulled the cam out, re-lubed it with high zinc start up lubricant, same with the lifters, timing chain, sprockets. Everything went well enough, other than me not finding the time to bolt up the sump permanently before I felt like coming in for dinner.

Timing chain installed with aluminium extension for Kugelfischer pump. Some long bolts in place tentatively to stop the paper inner gasket from slipping.
Afbeelding

SEDIS injection pump drive belt (Peugeot Classic refabrication) installed and tensioned.
Afbeelding

Oil thrower on and cork gasket too.
Afbeelding

Timing cover on...
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Sump provisionally on and will be done permanently later this week.
Afbeelding

Next weekend we're going away for 4 days to Penticton for some dining and cycling, so the top end work will begin later in July.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/
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Re: Canadian 404C restoration

Berichtdoor Mike Tippett » 09 jul 2024, 06:23

Just after finishing this work, I was reminded that the white remanufactured Rilsan SEDIS belts are not necessarily too durable. Here is an example, posted on Le Club 404's Forum only hours after I had installed mine!
Afbeelding

I have some original ones in red Rilsan, one with only 133K km on it, so I will open up the timing cover and exchange them.
1966 Peugeot 404 Coupé Injection 4598609 in restoration 2017-21
2006 smart BRABUS Canada 1 cdi cabriolet
2008 Mercedes-Benz B 200 5 speed
Register your 404: https://recensement.leclub404.com/
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Mike Tippett
 
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